The Mugai

An excerpt from a traveler's journal through which the lore of the game will be detailed.

Wasteland Savages

As I write of the Mugai it should be said that these savages do not recognize the proper gods that watch over the people of the lands of Kestor. No, the Mugai pay homage to effigies of carved stone, wood, and bone made in the image of the great flying metal beasts from the time of the magics of metal and light. These erect, looming totems wreathed in flame, indicative of the fire borne from the wings and tails of these great beasts, sway creepily as the Mugai dance around them calling out to their evil metal gods. Yes, it should be said that the Mugai have deified the beasts of metal that took to the skies on that fateful day, the day that the true gods visited their vengeance on man with those dark seeds.

The nomadic Mugai wander the shifting sands to the east and the Kryschere wastes still further east. A Mugai is often tall, masked, wrapped in fabrics and skins light in color, to protect them from the beating sun and the winds that whip sand across the flesh. When the masks are removed their leathery faces are thoroughly tattooed with lines that ring the mouth and eyes. They will often have large smooth stones stretching holes in their cheeks and a shaven head, save a single strip of hair kept in a braid that they never cut and wrap about their neck area. They fight with shields and simple bone tipped spears. Their wizards can call forth the elements of nature to burn men alive. Their shaman channel the spirits of the long dead beasts granting them great strength and even wield a great metal stave that will breath fire and spit metal, though this is exceedingly rare.

The Mugai are said to make a trek to the lands holy to their blasphemous beliefs in the Kryschere wastes, once a year, where they claim that their gods grant them gifts of metal and light, the weapons of old, and even the lore known as Tek to the peoples of Sansal and Raizt. Yes, it should be said the the strange men of Sansal and Raizt, who’s cities rest on the far side of the shifting sands make trades to the Mugai and maintain cordial relations with them.

The Mugai are known for their use of human sacrifice and other dark rituals of killing and improper conduct, on this I will say no more. They are not to be trusted, they are to be killed, for they are beyond reform in the eyes of the Great Temple. I Sir Pieter Smith, Keeper of Lores, will personally pay 2 coins to the man who brings me the head of a Mugai that has the seed of the god’s vengeance active. The head to be kept on display at the Great Temple’s Hall of Sins and Reckoning, so that it may stare hungrily as it gnashes teeth and writhes in vain, until the day it finally expires and shall be cast into the furnace. I shall make good on my offer of 2 coins until the day the seed of the gods vengeance takes me and I too gnash in the Hall of Sins and Reckoning.

Instant NPCs.

        In the midst of playtesting there reaches a point where you don't focus on any story. Instead you sort of plow through random encounters that create a certain feel you are looking for, so that you can test the specific mechanic it question. In an attempt to expedite that random encounters and keep them interesting, I made a random NPC generator. Now I'm sure there are countless versions of these floating around, just sharing mine.

Instant NPCs

Get 1 of each die (d4, d6, d8, d10, d12) and roll it, arrange it in order from smallest die to largest die, and make up a story. When you take notes it is easy just to write the 5 numbers that define an NPC so you can easily jump back into the character. Also these tables are by no means set in stone, so get creative.

d4	d6	d8	d10	d12
Thin	Very Short	Attractive	Deceitful	Lustful	1
Average	Short	Ugly	Honest	Gluttonous	2
Muscular	Average	Long Hair	Cowardly	Greedy	3
Fat	Average	Short Hair	Brave	Lazy	4
	Tall	Poor	Shy	Envious	5
	Very Tall	Wealthy	Out Going	Hot Headed	6
		Foreign	Paranoid	Proud	7
		Scared	Trusting	Cynical	8
			Kind	Crazy	9
			Cruel	Imbecile	10
				Humble	11
				Zealous	12

A few example rolls:

Fat, Average, Scared, Paranoid, and Lustful: So I imagine the players have walked into a tavern and are looking for a lead. They come across this NPC who is fat, of average height and scared. His eyes dart around the room analyzing people, lingering uncomfortably long on the females. It turns out he is an official from a neighboring city with an over indulgent streak a mile wide. One day in a drunken stooper he groped the lords wife and propositioned her. She pulled out her dagger and slashed his cheek wide open before going to find her husband and tell of the man’s vulgar display. This man now fears for his life, worried that he may be found and punished for his transgressions.

Thin, Average, Short Hair, Deceitful, and Crazy: They decide to look for other leads. The party comes across a very thin woman with a head that has been freshly shaved bald, a few specks of dried blood dot her scalp. She has a strange and erratic tick as she gives them the evil eye. When asked who she is, she replies “I am the lady of this land and you will address me as such, dog or worm … dog”. Okay, so maybe we should keep looking. “WORM”

Thin, Very Tall, Ugly, Cowardly, Envious: As the party moves on they come across a very tall man, his long gaunt face hanging behind his hawkish deviate nose. As the party approaches he seems to attempt to withdraw into the robes that already threaten to swallow his narrow frame. It seems as though he wants something from the party as he has watched them since they entered the pub. Side Quest! This guy is going to attempt to lure them back to his house and give them sleeping drugs dissolved in mead. When they awaken he will announce that now they can all be companions, forever, as the party now resides in his caged basement. This guy is lonely, very lonely and desired their camaraderie, he just doesn't know how to do it right.

Grappling.

        I have been working on finalizing the grappling system. I'm a big fan of grappling and have always been a little frustrated at the lack of options in the typical RPG.

        The best way to neutralize an opponent that has range on you, is to grapple them. That's not to say that entering a grapple should be easy, but I do like having it as a viable and detrimental option. 

        Bringing weapons into a grapple really allows you to let the short range weapons shine, daggers and knives a made for such attacks. While the larger weapons that rely on inertia are much less useful when out of their element.

        So many options, human shields, snapping necks, dislocation, or choking the opponent out in silence. 

Inspirational healing, how do you play it?

       How do you justify inspirational healing? I was playing D&D last night and someone suffered a broken leg, no problem, the bard used an inspiring word on them.

       I understand the idea of inspirational healing, to inspire someone to fight on in the face of adversity in spite of their wounds, but in the context of major physical wounds, it always feels wrong.

       How do you play such healing in D&D? What system handles such a style of healing better?

Trying to make a single boss fight dynamic.

      Had a fun idea the other day as I was designing a playtest encounter. I wanted to plug in a big bad, but I wanted to avoid that initiative order anomaly that causes non dynamic battles. I had just encountered it in a Tuesday game I play in, the entire party attacks, then the boss guy attacks. 

         Due to the flow of combat, the solo boss did not feel very dynamic to me and it was even a hydra. Sure the boss could perform multiple attacks, but they all happen at initiative X. Sure he had reactionary attacks, but we took care not to trigger them. So the fight had a certain lopsidedness to it.

         Then I had a nostalgic moment, I remembered the final battle from the old SNES side-scroller "King of Dragons". The boss was a giant red dragon that would attack with his head from one side of the screen and his hand would attempt to grab you from the other side. I would fight the head of the red dragon and my little brother would keep the hand off me. A simple tactic, but if my brother died it sucked for me.

                 That got me thinking, a head on one initiative, a tail on another, then maybe hands could create that dynamic feel from a single boss monster I was looking for. If a dynamic fight isn't enough, there is the glorious moment when you cut the dragon's tail off and turn it into an epic sword like you were playing Dark Souls .... lol

Economy in a post apocalypse.

      Justifying bullet shortage and building a game economy at the same time. There is the possibility for as much economic depth as you like.

         I wanted bullets to be controlled so there would not be an awkward attempt to balanced the gun with the sword. Guns are still available but balance through limited use.

An excerpt from the economy section:

The Economy

The economy is built on the back of minted plastic coins representing stores of rare properly jacketed bullets and to a lesser degree salvaged metal. As the old society waged massive wars and fought off hordes of zombie in it’s death throws, vanishingly few amounts of proper bullets made it to the new era. Now the bullets are coveted by lords as treasures of the past and stockpiled, even those who look down on tech cannot refute the value of an unspent shell on the open market.

Bullets playing such a huge roll in the economy had incredible impact on the use of these munitions. If a lord was to shoot a bullet it only served to appreciate the value of all other bullets, including those of rival lords. So bullet usage was abruptly halted in large scale.

Manufacturing Bullets

The manufacture of bullets is not a technological impossibility in this era, however it is a crime punishable by death. The manufacturing of bullets would debase all currency and serve as a backward tax on all other lords, giving the manufactured incredible power and wealth. The edge in military effectiveness is almost an afterthought in the context of economic power.

This does not mean that there are not individuals out there attempting to manufacture bullets, but it is a risky business on any scale.

Bullet Legality

It is illegal to carry properly jacketed bullets without a license and they are confiscated on sight without reimbursement. Bullets may be turned in willfully at the bullet vault of any lord and receive a coin equivalent in payment.

Gun powder and shot can be manufactured separately for use in less effective musket style weapons without legal implication.

Currency Value

The plastic coins used as currency start at a set value only for a point of reference. During the flow of the game inflation, deflation, fiduciary media, and currency wars are all possible, causing the value of the plastic coins to vary widely depending on the scenario. Where as a dagger may cost 1 coin in the starting economy, heavy inflation could easily drive it’s cost to well over 10 coins if things got out of control.

• Bar: 1000 coins being it’s value, these plastic bars, stamped with a lord’s insignia, are used for large purchases. They are often referred to as “slabs” or “grands” .
• Coin: the coins are the most common currency. Being made from recycled plastics they often take a dark gray or black color leading to their slang reference of “darks” or “blots”.
• Bit: 1/8 of a coin’s value, bits are most commonly pie shaped pieces of a cut up coin. Some of the lords have taken to minting smaller coins and calling them “minis” tho many nicknames for the coins persist such as “Sixes”, “bits”, and “Cut Coin”.

Morality in an RPG, should your actions carry weight?

       Players kill. Sometimes players are quite barbaric, if we can't eat it, sell it or mate with it ... we kill it.

     As a GM I like to have players find out they've killed someone important or that someone they assumed was bad, wasn't. Little things like that help put a damper on "kill first ask questions later" tactics, but I'm curious about other systems or home brews that codify a moral compass.

        Do you think a method of measuring a character's moral compass adds to a game? If so how should it impact things, simply be a reference point for RP or have measurable effects?

How important is character creation to you?

        I came across an article the other day that stated games need more pregenerated characters. It occurred to me that I had never used a pregen character except in situations where there was no other option.

        How important is the character creation process to you? Is it a ritual of optimization and building a rich back story to match or do let the story write itself? When you do make a character, do you enjoy simplicity or complexity in the process? 

        

How do you implement social tools?

        How well a character speaks, manipulates, seduces, or otherwise socially interacts with another individual is one aspect of the social systems. I think this works great in most cases, but what about when you have dirt on someone, or maybe even hold a personal relationship sway over them, brother, lover, captain?

         For the sake of a static point of reference I will use a clue like scenario. Let's say you are attempting to solve a murder, you have a hunch that the Plum guy did it but you have no proof. 

         Well an accusation of Plum on instinct alone would bring little to no effect. However if you had a witness, a counter to his alibi, and let's say, an axe carved with his name and tallies cuz he is a serial axe murder, your accusation would carry a lot of weight.

      Considering we are working with "Mentality", a quantification for an individual's mental state that mimics the "Vitality" of the individual physical state, it seems possible to give these accusations various impacts. It would function much like weapons. Having a witness is a decent accusation, it would probably cause a little more stress to Plum, however the axe that has "Plum's kill tally" carved into it would likely send him into shock and break his calm visage.

       Now, I feel like a lot of these social "weapons", tentatively named contrivances, are RP based and do not have a set value, as of yet. They would also work well for quantifying the use of forged papers, a writ from a king, a relationship with an individual, and almost any other social tool one would use to manipulate, outside of skill alone.

        What are your thoughts and what methods or systems have you used to implement such things?

How do you implement high risk/reward in combat?

        Through discussion, a loose conclusion was reached that most tactical combat tends to lean heavily towards hedging your bets, so to speak. Tactical combat seems inclined to take a low risk approach, when looking at the math. While I'm not saying this is wrong or right, I myself can be heard declaring we should "300 this" quite often, I'm wondering if there are systems or home brew rules that support a high risk/high reward combat style? The support for a desperate gamble if you will.
        If not how would you go about properly rewarding that desperate gamble moment where the outcome could be very bad or very beneficial? I'm kinda mulling the idea of pulling luck in to modify a roll, then have a success at what cost mechanic. I know, mechanically speaking, this is all out of context; I am kind of trying to bring an abstract idea into a more defined ... thing.
        The character jumps on the creature that would surely kill his downed friend, he manages to somehow slay something he should not have been able to, but now could bleed out from the wound received in this desperation maneuver.
        Hmm, a work in progress ... Also, a quick thanks to all the people who are constructively contributory, I really appreciate the feedback.

Are you a power gamer or story teller? 1-10

        Power gamer, min/maxer, whatever you wanna call it, there exists a desire in some to make their character the strongest they can be within the framework of a game. I myself have fretted over single points within a character creation. Would it be better here or there?
        Power gamers tend to relish extremely difficult tactical combat to push their character's, and their skills to the limits. Achievement is usually measured in blood, assuming the target bleeds .... This is one end of a spectrum.
        Story tellers, the drama players, are the other end of the spectrum. Character creation is more about a compelling back story rife with quandary and dilemma. Every skill or stat needs to meaningfully reflect the character.
        The story teller usually finds combat tedious. Combat gets in the way or the story, of the role playing. Achievement  is harder to quantify, a sociological achievement rendered vicariously through their character, unfolding the character in a slow, dramatic fashion until they come to fruition or burn out in a blaze of glory.
        Now these are examples of two very
generalized extremes of a spectrum, based on what I've interpreted. Essentially, it's like, my opinion man. It does seem to be a little tribal at times too, people settle into one camp or another. Am I alone in the middle?
        If this spectrum were to be measured in an overly simplistic scale of 1 to 10, 1 being power gamer and 10 being story teller. Where do you think you would fall?

Rolling Singles or Pools?

        In the context of rolling for a success, do you prefer a single dice determine your fate or a pool? I've known people who insisted on rolling 2d10 in place of a d20 because statistics. That being said, I recommended a player switch away from his "lucky" d20 after it rolled 4 for the umpteenth time. Then there is that case of a GM stipulating the player can only pass this next check with a roll of 20, or PC has bad things happen. So, he digs out his secret weapon magic die .... and it rolls a 20, ftw ...
        Now there are questions of die quality, the option of game science dice and other arguments that fall under this umbrella, but do pools really take a bit of die chicanery out of the mix? I'm no statistician ...

XP seems to be on the way out, what else?

        I have come across a couple of articles discussing how XP is rarely used any more. The GM just decides its a good time to level based off story progression or because everyone is ready. While XP has been a mainstream staple for a long time, it seems like it's fading.
        I, personally, have never liked the way characters scaling within an XP system prevents characters of different tiers from working together in any meaningful way for very long. Then there is the idea that encounters are a means of XP, not battles for your life; I think this is a disconnect from the idea of danger.
        Some could argue that the XP system in a wheel in need of reinvention. How do you feel about XP and are there any other wooden wheels rolling around out there, in your opinion?

Codified relationship mechanics or free form RP?

        Now I have a leaning towards free form RP and of course that is rooted in the idea that rolls break up the flow, so to speak. However, I am interested in hearing both sides of the debate. What are some good reason for a quantifiable relationship mechanic vs pure free form? Does it help drawn in less RP oriented players?
     

What are some of your favorite RPG settings?

        What are some of you favorite settings or eras? What is it that defines this as an idea you enjoy? Do you get a specific notion of fulfillment out of your favorite setting not offered in others? How long have you been playing this type of setting and what keeps you coming back?

How do you feel about weapon effectiveness?

        Speaking in terms of tactical combat, it seems like daggers in general are a poor weapon unless you have very specialized training in their use. They are a cheap fallback for if you lose your real weapon. To me daggers seems like a very close combat weapon to be utilized when ranges vary. If at spear range a spear beats a dagger, but at dagger range shouldn't a dagger beat a spear?
        It's striking 101 that if your opponent has the range advantage, you close the gap as soon as possible. If you opponent strikes better, then you grab him and negate the strikes.
        Now I know I'm making a sweeping generalization but it paints a picture of weapon ranges. Take an axe, it needs to be swung to make proper use of it, should it not be at a disadvantage to any short weapon in a grapple?

How important is a check?

        How important are checks, situationally speaking of course? I have encountered that locked door before, where we fail to pick the lock, fail to break it down, so we try picking it again. It's just a series of rolls till success, so ultimately the check seems moot.
        Then you put zombies behind the PC trying to pick the lock and the situation becomes far more dangerous but we can still fail and feel like "Whyyyy do I have this skill?".
         DieX has a tiered, success at what cost, sort of mechanic working so far. It's something I like to use in my homebrewed games when I want a check to ratchet up tension in a scenario. Of course, success is relative. If you fail miserably you may make it through the door, bitten, and the door wide open . . . success? lol
         What do you do to keep checks relevant?

How important is economy in a game?

        Do you count every minute increment of currency or do you put it on that nonexistent tab every time you grab a beer? How important is the economy items as well? Do you prefer to keep the same weapon as your character grows, or do you enjoy a loot treadmill where you are in pursuit of the next best thing?

Your thoughts on persistent wounds?

        Missing limbs instantly tell a story. Whether you ask for the story or speculated on how this could have happened, interested is piqued.
        I don't plan on just amputations but cuts, gashes, broken, and crack bones as well. I see combat as a series of misses and glancing blows inflicting minimal damage with one or two significant blows . Those strikes that lands flush and stagger the opponent so they cannot counter your means of finishing them off or walking away.
        With the natural response to danger flying at your face being a raised hand, it seems like dismemberment is just an inevitable  part of playing with swords, axes, light sabers etc ...

How important is character death to you?

          Is death something that is important to a proper RPG? Is an RPG without death like poker without money? Should character death be a player choice or GMs prerogative?


Thoughts?

Static Stats, Your Thoughts?

        You cannot teach charisma and some people's body structure cannot support a 1010 lbs deadlift. We all know that person old enough for wisdom, without it.
        I'm thinking about static core stats, your strength, wisdom etc. There will still be tons of character development through skills and techniques. The speed at which you can develop said skills and techniques hinge on your core stats. However the core stats you choose will represent the peak of your genetics.

Whats in a name?

       Die is singular for dice and X is a variable. DX system was a contender but it made me think of those wrestlers that make an X over their crotch with their hands. Are they even still around? Didn't really want the game to be synonymous with crotch X'ing.

Theory of No HP.

        In the games I have played there seems to be about a 50% hit chance baseline. With the inevitable mix/maxing and optimization the hit goes up to ridiculous percentiles of 80-95%, do they have laser guided fists? Abstractly quantified health pools create that awkward scene of justifying why this guy is still standing despite all the damage he takes. Some games have successfully justified it with smaller hp pools.

        In HP driven games a miss tends to feel like a turn wasted, heaven forbid you miss any extra actions.

        This, for me, is compounded the hit percentiles. One of the top punchers currently alive crested at 46% accuracy, second place coming in at 38%. Though any connection percentile in a fight sport is skewed high by punching for points. Let me just pop this guy on the head a few times and make it look good before the bell, does not translate well into fighting for your life.

        A system functioning without HP creates, for me, a more realistic feel. The lucky one hit knockouts are a rare and fun possibility. Missed strikes are common and create a the high action feel as players vie for position and chain together moves up improve percentile. Just imagine your favorite action scene in any movie, the near misses are where the action is at. Once a significant blow is landed the combat generally ends. 

        In the case of hits without a KO, attack and defense roll disparity help paint a picture of damage taken. Damage taken by a character becomes an advantage in the attackers rolls pushing him closer to reaching that knock out DC known as Vitality. 

Let's Talk Setting.

      Post zombie apocalypse. Zombies will replace the giant rats and goblins as newb fodder. They are just a fact of life by this point and the real story is the struggle against other humans, mutation, and ideals that do not coincide with your own.

     The magic of mythology and theology has crept back into existence as the radio waves, cell towers, and electrical interference have long since abated. This of course does not stop those who wish to seek and salvage old world tech. Guns can coexist with magic and tech is a skill tree among the magics. Inspired by the Cargo Cults of Melanesia, tech is at times worshiped.

      Tech is often a point of confrontation as it is seen as the herald of destruction. Many people blame tech from the destruction of the old world and the zombies. Sects of Luddites determined to rid the world on tech once and for all scour for it's use. 

        There is no good and evil in the world, just sides and decisions. Though that does not prevent some sides from being less desirable. Such as the Ontologists, an interesting mix of simulation theory and science fiction religions. They subscribe to the idea zombies are place holders that prevent your consciousness from being recycled into the simulation and therefore must be spared and propagated.

Props to Samsung

       All the art I do for this project is created on the Samsung Galaxy Note 3. The S Pen is awesome and easy to use. The program is called Sketchbook for Galaxy. I even do the writing, the PDFs, the layout, everything on my phone, on the go, with kids.


Fun times.

Growing Within a World.

        Scaling has always been a strange thing to me. Why do you always seem to run into monsters just the right level to give you a justifiably challenging fight. Some games handle it by zoning, move into this area to fight creatures X level.
        I wanted to create a world with a set difficulty that a character could move through at will. A world where, if you're really good at something, you're really good at it wherever you are.
        To overcome the idea of leveling up to an adequate level to kill the colossal dragon of doom there are two styles of combat: tactical and cinematic.
        Tactical is gritty and crunchy for the people who love it. Cinematic is much more fast and loose allowing players to be creative. It's the idea of recreating the scene where a hobbit overcomes an encounter with a dragon. That hobbit is clearly not high enough level.
        The two can be switched between to create the right scene. You are in a fervent battle with bad guys when superbad drops out of the sky, what do you do?

Progress without XP

        I do not know if XP is a sacred cow or just a habit, but the DieXSystem does not use it. Instead,
progression is based on skills used. If you used a skill in a scene or combat, post scene you are allotted a roll to check for progress in it.
        This process follows a sharp learning curve, statistically speaking. It is quite quick and easy to pick up the first tier in a skill but as you reach higher tiers the probability drops off. We have all experienced this to some degree, let's take typing as an example. The first time you tried to type, regardless of age, you no doubt had a hunt and peck style. In fact hunt and peck is the first tier of the skill of typing. With practice and use you reach a point where you no longer even need to look at a keyboard, you don't even think where the keys are as muscle memory develops. Quick, which finger goes on the "K"? Did you have to look?
       This kind of progress has intrinsic means for dealing with lay overs or montage. The GM can simply allot an amount of rolls based on whatever stipulation they cook up.
       Built around this system is a world that your character can grow into, not a world that scales around a character based on a hierarchical XP system.    

No Hitpoint Combat

        There is no quantified pool of health to be whittled away at. Instead there are measurements of damage that allow you to add points or dice to the pool, that is rolled against the Vitality. When you pass a character's threshold for physical pain they are knocked unconscious. This is a mechanic that was dubbed the Rolling DC, rolling a pool that accumulates progress towards a greater DC.
         With a pool for both physical and mental trauma this creates an interesting battlefield full of visceral strikes and clever manipulations. I make the claim of realistic combat and I base this off my personal experiences in combat sports. Just look at any high tier combat sport, there is a psychology to combat. To set up a proper head kick one must condition the enemy to lower their hands. Much like in poker, where you must show you are willing to bluff to draw someone into a big pot.
         Long story short, the mind is part of combat. To reflect this the pool a character rolls to attack or defend includes a physical stat, a mental stat, and the skill used. Which brings us to skills.

        Skills really help shape a character. Care was taken to make skills relevant and useful. Skills govern the techniques a character can take and facilitate an intricate character building system, based off skill use, not XP.

The DieX Character PDF

       Recently finished the character creation PDF, 16 pages detailing the how and why of a creation process. Care was taken to make sure that every ability stat had an intrinsic value. Stat dumping and optimizing are still possible, but it creates holes and the holes create personality and life in a character.
     
      Your character has 2 core means of measuring themselves against each other and the world. First Vitality, this measures how a character can absorb physical harm. It is the difference between and a glass jaw and an iron jaw. Second is Mentality, the measure of mental fortitude. This would be the difference between a strong will with a powerful personality and someone who is easily manipulated.
   
      If in character creation you dumped a lot of abilities that govern Mentality, in favor of min/maxing toward a heavy melee build. Your character would be the quintessential "dumb brute". This would lead them to be easily manipulated, though they would wreck face.
     
      Conversely if you were to dump Vitality governing stats in favor of building a charismatic and intelligent orator, you're gonna need those words to keep you alive. Better yet, use those words to convince the brute to keep you alive.
     
      One can always choose a middle of the road approach and be a jack of all trades. A well rounded character is versatile and strong. The focus is more on the jack of trades side, not so much the master of none.
   
      With Mentality driving aggro control, taunt is more than an arbitrarily implemented thing to keep a tank sticky. In fact a smart tanking does not need to be a separation of player and character knowledge at all.

In the beginning ...

There was so much to do ...